The dirty side of the exotic pet trade

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/articles.php?p=180&more=1

The Dirty Side of the Exotic Animal Pet Trade
www.bornfreeusa.org
Born Free USA is a national animal advocacy nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization. Our mission is to advocate for the protection of animals from cruelty and exploitation.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE READ UP ON ORGANIZATIONS BEFORE POSTING HERE!!! http://www.bornfreeusa.org/database/exo_incidents.php
There are TEN incidents with REPTILES WHY would we SUPPORT THEM!!!!!

John i read the article and thought it was good , i dont know anythign bout the organisation and what it had to do with snake bans or anything so bare with me , cant know everything

Stephan9268 wrote:John i read the article and thought it was good , i dont know anythign bout the organisation and what it had to do with snake bans or anything so bare with me , cant know everything

"Reptile breeding facilities typically house and stack reptiles in small to mid-sized barren aquariums or clear plastic containers in which some will spend all or most of their lives. One reptile farm boasts that it houses reptiles in plastic containers that range in size from 12.5 x 6.75 x 6.75 inches to 16 x 10.75 x 6.5 inches. While such housing may be standard in the reptile industry, it is hardly capable of accommodating and/or facilitating natural reptile behavior. To propagate a species only to relinquish it to an environment in such stark contrast to the habitat to which it is adapted is not conservation nor is it humane." How does this shed a positive light on reptile keepers?

Is that how you keep your reptilies John ? if you do ,well maybe you got the wrong hobby then cause isure dont , and sadly ebough i have seenenough breeders and even normal keepers who exactlly keep em that way and thats sad and it shouldnt be that way , same with keeping animals on newspaper and other crap like that , so whats your point exatlly ?

Stephan9268 wrote:Is that how you keep your reptilies John ? if you do ,well maybe you got the wrong hobby then cause isure dont , and sadly ebough i have seenenough breeders and even normal keepers who exactlly keep em that way and thats sad and it shouldnt be that way , same with keeping animals on newspaper and other crap like that , so whats your point exatlly ?

When you post something on a public forum you obviously believe in what is being said or at least that is how and many people would perceive that action. To then take that post and post it into a reptile forum which is part of the ‘Exotic Pet Trade this would mean also to my ‘limited’ view that you agree with what the article is saying. For those who are unaware of the article here is the link http://www.bornfreeusa.org/articles.php?p=180&more=1 I myself and many of my colleagues are painfully aware of who Born Free is and what they stand for which is a ban on all exotic pet ownership. How you could miss this is beyond me personally as I would have been suspect when reading the article I read the following

“Because the life expectancy of a captive reptile is so low and the animals themselves suffer, API recommends that reptiles not be kept as “pets” by the general public. Reptiles should remain in their native habitat where they are able to roam and be free from captivity.”
Let me ask you sir, how is this viewed as anything but a vicious swipe at the reptile community? Not to mention the following
“Reptile breeding facilities typically house and stack reptiles in small to mid-sized barren aquariums or clear plastic containers in which some will spend all or most of their lives. One reptile farm boasts that it houses reptiles in plastic containers that range in size from 12.5 x 6.75 x 6.75 inches to 16 x 10.75 x 6.5 inches. While such housing may be standard in the reptile industry, it is hardly capable of accommodating and/or facilitating natural reptile behavior. To propagate a species only to relinquish it to an environment in such stark contrast to the habitat to which it is adapted is not conservation nor is it humane.”

I read the article in its entirety and I can see nowhere why I would have shared this without the caveat that my reptile colleagues should be aware of the senseless rhetoric which is being spewed forth by those uneducated about the reptile species.
But this didn’t stop there in our comments did it? No sir, it did not. Now before we get to that I would love to point out that I had an in depth logical and intelligent discussion with the party which originally posted the article and our conversation ended with that party not only posting one of my pieces regarding Responsible Reptile Ownership but they asked if I had any other links similar and requested that i post them directly to their page here on Facebook.
Keeping reptiles on newspaper is typically for quarantine but once again your lack of experience once again speaks volumes here as well.
Now then if I am in the wrong what you call hobby then why is it that I am the one with three I'm sorry four quality reptile websites not to mention a respected member of the reptile community? Oh did I mention also that I am a moderator here as well? I mean come on really? Can you not do better than that? I am not being childish I am placing facts and if you cannot deal with facts then I think it is you who are in the wrong 'hobby' as you so aptly put it. For some us it's not a 'hobby' it's a way of life.

Why did i know such an answer would come ? Your turning around the words in my mouth . I didnt say your are in the wrong hobby i said you would be if you kept your animals that way , neither did i ever question your knowledge about reptiles in any word . also iam very much awhere your an moderator in this forum ,my english grammar might not be the best as you so nicley ponted out in other places but my abillity to read sure is . I am well aware of the fact that keeping reptiles on newspaper is a good thing for animals that are sick or i quarantine is useful and have done so myself , but that not the people i been tlaking bout , i am tallking botu so called breeders and keepers that do so year around , keeping them on paper , in plastic ocntainners , no hiding places or anything wich even closley is in regard to there normal natural sourroundings . I can deal with facts and i am the last not to listen to them but what i will not do is let myself be put down , not here or any other place , from nobody moderator or not . And as for hobbby or living this , i have been in this hobby, yeah thats is what it is for me since i do have life outside of it too , for severall years so i dont see myself wiht a lack of expirience , To get to point of this , i respect your knowledge and all your doing for this community but all that dont give you the right in anyway to treat people in a way like your a better person or something

Uhm that was a direct quote "Is that how you keep your reptilies John ? if you do ,well maybe you got the wrong hobby" My point is that you're posting in a reptile forum an article which decries the industry as whole. Please note my original statement. "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE READ UP ON ORGANIZATIONS BEFORE POSTING HERE!!! http://www.bornfreeusa.org/database/exo_incidents.php
There are TEN incidents with REPTILES WHY would we SUPPORT THEM!!!!!" All I am saying is that we should read up on who we are 'promoting' if we are posting it here then we are propagating their fear mongering would you not agree?
I then posted a direct quote from the article showing how they thought of the reptile industry so it was strange to me that you viewed it any other way. That is when you asked the above and I replied accordingly. The entire point of my ire was only to say that posts made by 'reptile people' should be in favor of keeping reptiles in captive environments under proper conditions not reiterating an organizations fear mongering which is obvious by going to their website and reading the article in its entirety.

Ok i do agree with that , here is a an idea , since we overseas dont really know much about every organisation in the US and wich is good or bad for our hobby why dont you list those that work against the hobby to make it easier on folks like me please , then we can avoid confrontations like this in the future

Stephan9268 wrote:Ok i do agree with that , here is a an idea , since we overseas dont really know much about every organisation in the US and wich is good or bad for our hobby why dont you list those that work against the hobby to make it easier on folks like me please , then we can avoid confrontations like this in the future

Deal, now here is one for you, there is an organization I believe it's UK based that actually shut down a reptile show by using death threats to the organizers and I cannot remember who they are. Have any insight on who they are? They seem to be like the UK equivalent of PETA here in the states. I'm thinking we combine our efforts and put together a singular topic with the title of Avoid these organizations. Now I am not proposing we call them out and talk about them but maybe a disclaimer of These organizations have shown that they are against reptile ownership. Have to see what Jo says, but are you open to that Stephan work from both sides of the pond so to speak and meet in the middle?

You would have to ask jo on that i am based in germany and havent heard of those people yet we got some here in germany and i ll try to get a list of names to gether in the next couple of days so ocne a post about this is opend i ll add them for sure

sounds good! I swear for every herpetological society we have here it seems we have two groups of people who are against reptiles.

Are you referring to the RSPCA John ?

No no, It was http://www.apa.org.uk/ Tom Williams a colleague of mine posted it on FB in response to one of my posts.

Ah right but the rspca is no better trust me